Diskusyón:La Apala

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New article[trocar el manadero]

@Rachel1 and JHistory: I am going to take the liberty of writing in English, because (a) I cannot really write in Judeo-Spanish, and (b) Rachel's hewiki user page states that she is a native English speaker. Thank you for your understanding.

Thank you very much for importing this article. Moreover, at least to my untrained eye, this looks like it is really in JS and not in modern Spanish, which is a problem we have sometimes. I would appreciate your help, though, in cleaning the article up a little bit, along the following lines:

  • Notice that I changed the page name. We do not use leading H in names starting with ה here. See Yom A'atzmaut and Rosh Ashana.
  • Please make sure that the sentences and paragraphs in the article are arranged the way you want them. The article looks very different in the wikicode editing space than it does in reading mode.
    In some cases, I can't tell whether you really intended there to be two sentences (but left out a period) or one sentence (and had an incorrect capital letter in the middle).
  • This feels like a long wall of words. The page might be more readable and usable if you put some section headings in, as in the English and Hebrew versions of the page. You don't need them to anywhere near the same level of detail, but one or two would still be helpful. If you don't know how, ask and I'll help.

Again, thank you for contributing here, and for any additional improvements you can make to this or other articles! StevenJ81 (discusión) 15:58 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Update 16:47 20 May 2016 (UTC)[trocar el manadero]

Thank you for acting so promptly. I'd make two other requests, one very important and one that would at least be helpful to me.

  • Important. This looks to me like you imported it from a different wiki. That's completely fine. But (a) you didn't bring sources over with you, and (b) you didn't write a copyright attribution, which is still required by the various licenses that Wikipedia publishes under. It would be great if you explicitly added sources to the article; that's the way things work on most Wikipedia projects. But at minimum, if you add an attribution to the talk page, that would also (indirectly) result in your citing the sources from the original wiki. We don't really have a template for this; I'll probably import one from somewhere. But here's what you need to add here to the talk page:
  • The name of the wiki and article you imported from
  • The date and time of the import
  • Ideally, the fixed identifier of the version you copied from
  • Nice to have. When you add a link here, you can often find the established orthography we are using. So please try to be consistent, if you can. As an example, one of you added the piped link [[Olokósto|Shoah]]. Fine, but on that page you can see that the orthography we're using for "Shoah" is Shoá. So it would really be better, then, to make your piped link say [[Olokósto|Shoá]].

Thanks again. StevenJ81 (discusión) 16:47 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello Steven,
Thank you for your comments and tips.
The article is not imported from another wiki. The text was written by User:JHistory and was translated to Ladino by my mother User:Klara Kadi, she is also wikipedian and contributed much to this wikipedia.
Best Regards, Rachel (discusión) 17:55 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Rachel.
I have briefly met your mother already. She was kind enough to drop by and vote for me when Universal Life put me up for administrator here.
I am sorry for misunderstanding the source of this article. I greatly appreciate JHistory's work on this, as well as your mother's translation efforts.
That sincerely offered, I would strongly urge JHistory to add some outside sources to the article as references. Ideally, he/she would do that using a combination of in-line citations and a bibliographic list. At minimum, there should be a bibliography at the end of the article. For a variety of reasons we can't (and maybe even shouldn't) be so strict about making sure each and every statement in this Wiki is sourced. We have to balance that against encouraging participation and contributions, after all. But at the same time, we still need to make sure that in the big picture an article like this is recognized as being accurately backed in reliable sources, neutral, and all the rest.
(In the near future, I may try to designate an article or two here as a featured article or a good article, which we haven't done in the past. But I can't really designate an article without references as featured.)
So I'll leave that request out there for JHistory, and in the meantime wish one and all שבת שלום. StevenJ81 (discusión) 18:38 20 May 2016 (UTC)
I added some articles in Hebrew and English. Semana Buena, Rachel (discusión) 06:24 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Some copyediting questions[trocar el manadero]

Some of the questions I'm about to ask you are a little absurd, given that JS is principally a spoken language and only secondarily a written language. Yet I'd like to see some consistency and order, at least within the article itself. To that end, in the top part of the article I have come across the following questions that I'd like to get answers to:

  • Segunda gerra ... should be mondiala (feminine), no?
  • We have dospues, dospuez, and dozpues, though as far as I can tell not dozpuez. Do you want to settle on one?
  • Would JS speakers always use the word "English" to refer to the Mandatory power? Most other versions of this article (I checked English, Simple English, Hebrew, French and Yiddish) prefer "British" to "English," and I think that's probably more correct.
  • Atlit: I won't challenge "prison" if that's what you prefer. But the Hebrew and English versions call it a "detention camp", and it certainly wasn't a prison in the sense that Akko Prison was. Thoughts?
  • Kafrisin: See Repuvlika Kipriyota and Kipre (ada). Would one of those names be preferable to the Hebrew Kafrisin?
  • Los or loz?
  • Emingrantes (and related) or emigrantes (and related)?

That's plenty for now; I may have more later. StevenJ81 (discusión) 14:27 23 May 2016 (UTC)

I can now see that this article and the film JHistory provided to Commons are very much aligned. That's fine. For the purposes of this article, though, I'd still like to address the copyediting issues outlined above. I'm less concerned whether the spelling here and the spelling of the titles in the film are identical. StevenJ81 (discusión) 20:19 25 May 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. JHistory (discusión) 20:27 25 May 2016 (UTC)
Thank you Steven for your comments. I corrected some of them, mainly the copyediting issues.
You are probably right about "the British Mandate". I don't know how to say it in Ladino. I would appreciate any help that you can give us in correcting the language issues.
Shabat Shalom, Rachel (discusión) 12:42 27 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm actually not a Ladino speaker, and how I became an admin here is a whole megillah. I can copyedit and see things that are inconsistent. But I'd rely on your mother, or Usador:Universal Life or Usador:Katxis, none of whom are here so often these days, for real language help.
Thanks for the edits. שבת שלום. StevenJ81 (discusión) 13:17 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Salud StevenJ81, Rachel y JHistory. I'm back after a long wikibreak. I haven't read this article yet but I'll help as much as I can.
  • Word forms such as mundiala, nacionala doesn't exist in Judaeo-Spanish even though some people use it being influenced by Modern Spanish. The feminine of mundial is also mundial ie. La Segunda Gerra Mundial.
  • The forms such as los / loz or dospues / dospuez are actually 2 different pronunciations of the same sound unit /s/, depending on the following sound. I prefer to always right them with the letter "s", as such it is also established in the United Orthography that the letter "s" is pronounced like in the word Rose in specific positions. However as the orthography of "Aki Yerushalayim" encourages us to write phonetically, such occurences as "loz" and dospuez" are bound to occur in that orthography.
  • I believe the word for Cyprus in JS is Chipros or Kipros. However as the main languages in countries where we speak the languages does have a big impact. We also say Kibris (Turkish), Kafrisin (Hebrew) or Kipro (Greek). Note: the word isla (or AY: izla) is preferable to ada in Wikipedia titles.
  • The expression los ingleses is a very common way to speak about the British. I've seen however el Mandato Britaniko many times to mean the "British Mandate" in JS, although no one would speak it that way. --Universal Life (discusión) 18:48 26 Jun 2016 (UTC)